Editing Online Developer Meeting (2020-11-10)
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=== The future of Octave Packages === | === The future of Octave Packages === | ||
: ''See also [https://octave.discourse.group/t/online-developer-meeting-2020-11-10-the-future-of-octave-packages/349 Discourse].'' | : ''See also [https://octave.discourse.group/t/online-developer-meeting-2020-11-10-the-future-of-octave-packages/349 Discourse].'' | ||
==== The Octave Forge legacy ==== | ==== The Octave Forge legacy ==== | ||
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* Website looks great. | * Website looks great. | ||
* No major updates (necessary) since 2018 http://hg.code.sf.net/p/octave/project-web | * No major updates (necessary) since 2018 http://hg.code.sf.net/p/octave/project-web | ||
* Useful [https://octave.sourceforge.io/docs.php Function List]. '''How to update this {{bug|53860}}?''' | * Useful [https://octave.sourceforge.io/docs.php Function List]. '''How to update this {{bug|53860}}?''' | ||
* Original developer (Oliver) no longer active. | * Original developer (Oliver) no longer active. | ||
* Adding and updating packages here is expensive/dangerous | * Adding and updating packages here is expensive/dangerous | ||
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** Experience of Kai after a few releases: | ** Experience of Kai after a few releases: | ||
*** An "easy release" with basic installation/functionality checking/uploading takes me about '''20-30 minutes'''. | *** An "easy release" with basic installation/functionality checking/uploading takes me about '''20-30 minutes'''. | ||
*** If something is wrong with the tarballs another 20- | *** If something is wrong with the tarballs another 20-20 minutes. | ||
*** Version numbers are tracked in too many locations (DESCRIPTION, configure.ac, ...) | *** Version numbers are tracked in too many locations (DESCRIPTION, configure.ac, ...) | ||
*** Octave Forge claims "high quality" | *** Octave Forge claims "high quality" | ||
**** No OF admin can enforce it within 20-30 minutes (e.g. lack of package domain knowledge). | **** No OF admin can enforce it within 20-30 minutes (e.g. lack of package domain knowledge). | ||
**** | **** Users find many bugs despite this "high quality" release check procedures. | ||
**** Why not just automatically release packages (pkg-index)? | **** Why not just automatically release packages (pkg-index)? | ||
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When reporting an Octave (core) bug on https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?group=octave you are "greeted" with '''1523 open bug reports''' of which [https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?group=octave&func=browse&set=custom&msort=0&status_id=1&resolution_id=0&submitted_by=0&assigned_to=0&category_id=108&bug_group_id=0&severity=0&priority=0&summary=&details=&advsrch=0&msort=0&chunksz=100&spamscore=5&report_id=101&sumORdet=0&morder=bug_id%3C&sumOrdet=0&offset=0#results '''330 reports (22%)'''] belong to Octave Forge packages and '''240 (15%) are older than a year'''. | When reporting an Octave (core) bug on https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?group=octave you are "greeted" with '''1523 open bug reports''' of which [https://savannah.gnu.org/bugs/?group=octave&func=browse&set=custom&msort=0&status_id=1&resolution_id=0&submitted_by=0&assigned_to=0&category_id=108&bug_group_id=0&severity=0&priority=0&summary=&details=&advsrch=0&msort=0&chunksz=100&spamscore=5&report_id=101&sumORdet=0&morder=bug_id%3C&sumOrdet=0&offset=0#results '''330 reports (22%)'''] belong to Octave Forge packages and '''240 (15%) are older than a year'''. | ||
* They are not likely to be closed or worked on and leave a maintenance burden and bad impression (user requests for unmaintained packages are ignored there) back to Octave (core) | * They are not likely to be closed or worked on and leave a maintenance burden and bad impression (user requests for unmaintained packages are ignored there) back to Octave (core). | ||
Ideas: | |||
* Ignore and collect requests to infinity? | * Ignore and collect requests to infinity? | ||
* Close bugs of inactive packages older than X years? (Drop the illusion, that someone ever will fix it.) | * Close bugs of inactive packages older than X years? (Drop the illusion, that someone ever will fix it.) | ||
* Octave Forge suggests to [https://octave.sourceforge.io/support-help.php use the Savannah Bug tracker] for bug reports. Drop this announcement? | * Octave Forge suggests to [https://octave.sourceforge.io/support-help.php use the Savannah Bug tracker] for bug reports. Drop this announcement? | ||
* Reopen the [https://sourceforge.net/p/octave/bugs/ old Octave Forge bug tracker]? | * Reopen the [https://sourceforge.net/p/octave/bugs/ old Octave Forge bug tracker]? | ||
===== MXE-Octave ===== | ===== MXE-Octave ===== | ||
* The MS Windows installer [[Octave for Microsoft Windows#Packages|bundles 47]] Octave packages. | * The MS Windows installer [[Octave for Microsoft Windows#Packages|bundles 47]] Octave packages. | ||
* About 26 patches necessary to achieve this. | * About 26 patches necessary to achieve this. | ||
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of-tisean-1-fixes.patch | of-tisean-1-fixes.patch | ||
of-video-1-fixes.patch | of-video-1-fixes.patch | ||
* Forced updates to the packages? | |||
* Make criterion to drop package from installer if it no longer compiles "normally" (document somewhere)? | |||
* Document how to request package inclusion in the MS Windows installer (open bug report, Discourse, manual)? | |||
==== New directions ==== | ==== New directions ==== | ||
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* Super set of Octave Forge (all packages in latest version included) | * Super set of Octave Forge (all packages in latest version included) | ||
* Easy to add, update and delete entries (just one file of meta data) | * Easy to add, update and delete entries (just one file of meta data) | ||
* Advertise pkg-index as (only) major platform for Octave packages? | * Advertise pkg-index as (only) major platform for Octave packages? | ||
* Future development: | * Future development: | ||
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* Alternatives exist [https://github.com/apjanke/octave-packajoozle octave-packajoozle (pkj)] | * Alternatives exist [https://github.com/apjanke/octave-packajoozle octave-packajoozle (pkj)] | ||
* General design: '''Making pkg an Octave package?''' | * General design: '''Making pkg an Octave package?''' | ||
** Changes to pkg or the package format can be applied to old Octave versions. | ** Changes to pkg or the package format can be applied to old Octave versions. | ||
** Multiple pkg tools can be developed. | ** Multiple pkg tools can be developed. | ||
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* Documented [https://octave.org/doc/v5.2.0/Creating-Packages.html in the Octave manual] | * Documented [https://octave.org/doc/v5.2.0/Creating-Packages.html in the Octave manual] | ||
* In general good Octave programming project organization. | * In general good Octave programming project organization. | ||
* Permitting "DESCRIPTION.md" or "DESCRIPTION.txt" extensions? (Nice highlighting in many modern source code hosting platforms.) | * Permitting "DESCRIPTION.md" or "DESCRIPTION.txt" extensions? (Nice highlighting in many modern source code hosting platforms.) | ||
=== General questions, open talk === | === General questions, open talk === | ||
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* Packages must become smaller? | * Packages must become smaller? | ||
** Split large packages into different functionalities? | ** Split large packages into different functionalities? | ||
== Ideas for next meeting == | == Ideas for next meeting == | ||
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== See also == | == See also == | ||
* Next meeting: | * Next meeting: TBA | ||
* Last meeting: [[Online Developer Meeting (2020-10-27)]] | * Last meeting: [[Online Developer Meeting (2020-10-27)]] | ||
[[Category:2020]] | [[Category:2020]] | ||
[[Category:Meetings]] | [[Category:Meetings]] |