Difference between revisions of "Online Developer Meeting (2021-08-24)"

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* Meet and greet 5 minutes before meeting (audio testing).
 
* Meet and greet 5 minutes before meeting (audio testing).
  
=== First topic to discuss ===
+
=== Switch this meeting to more casual format ===
 +
 
 +
* In the future notes of the talks will be added to this wiki in a more sparse fashion.
 +
 
 +
=== liboctave ===
 +
 
 +
* Make more use of STL
 +
* Not all liboctave components can be replaced by STL containers, as the ND-indexing is not supported.
 +
* <code>string_vector</code> class probably replaceable by STL containers.
 +
 
 +
=== Tips for Octave C++ code writers ===
 +
 
 +
Such as packages, toolboxes, etc.
 +
 
 +
* Prefer <code>OCTAVE_LOCAL_BUFFER</code> over heavy-weight <code>Array</code> object to store results of (Fortran-) library calls.
 +
* Prefer <code>octave_value</code> type variables over internal data structures.
 +
** Examples: Function handle class and Range class.
 +
 
 +
=== For package maintainers ===
 +
 
 +
* Do not use <code>error_state</code> anymore! https://octave.discourse.group/t/eliminating-use-of-error-state-in-octave-code/1515
 +
* Do not suppress compiler warnings about deprecated features today, those are the bug reports of tomorrow, when it is too late.
 +
 
 +
=== octave namespace ===
 +
 
 +
* jwe made many breaking changes on the default branch moving symbols in the octave namespace, to keep the namespaces tidy.
 +
 
 +
=== Deprecations ===
 +
 
 +
* The operators <code>.+</code>, <code>.-</code>, and <code>**</code> https://octave.discourse.group/t/deprecating-fortran-style-exponent-operator/1516 will be deprecated.
 +
 
 +
=== Trolling ===
 +
 
 +
* In case of trolling behavior of users, please mark the thread, thus a Discourse admin can close the threat and mute the user.
 +
** DO NOT FEED THE TROLL: Any further answer or conversation is most likely a waste of emotions and time.
 +
* Any user violating the usage conditions https://octave.discourse.group/tos#heading--conditions will be muted or removed from the forum entirely.
 +
 
 +
=== Code sprints ===
 +
 
 +
* Wish for more code sprints, e.g.,
 +
** "m_" convention https://octave.discourse.group/t/using-m-prefix-for-member-variables-in-c-classes/1517/17
 +
** Close easy closable bugs [[Short_projects#Easy_Closes]]
  
 
== Previous topics ==
 
== Previous topics ==
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* No "official" announcement happened.  Maybe reuse abandoned mailing-lists to announce important events, such as releases.
 
* No "official" announcement happened.  Maybe reuse abandoned mailing-lists to announce important events, such as releases.
 
* How do distribution maintainers get to know about Octave releases?
 
* How do distribution maintainers get to know about Octave releases?
** Contact Debian maintainers of the Octave package to maybe improve our communication (Kai).
+
** Contact Debian maintainers of the Octave package to maybe improve our communication.
 +
*** Done, already answered: https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/octave-maintainers/2021-07/msg00001.html
  
 
=== Octave 6.4 / 7 / 8 ===
 
=== Octave 6.4 / 7 / 8 ===
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** jwe will continue to work on this feature on Octave 7 (default branch)
 
** jwe will continue to work on this feature on Octave 7 (default branch)
 
** If feature cannot be completed by the end of the year, it will be disabled on parser-level (error), and introduced in Octave 8 one year later.
 
** If feature cannot be completed by the end of the year, it will be disabled on parser-level (error), and introduced in Octave 8 one year later.
* New GUI command widget
+
* [https://octave.discourse.group/t/new-command-window-widget/501? New GUI command widget]
 
** Possible to introduce it as user opt-in in Octave 7
 
** Possible to introduce it as user opt-in in Octave 7
 
** Pending issues:
 
** Pending issues:
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* Deprecation of Octave operators
 
* Deprecation of Octave operators
 
** Improve Matlab compatibility
 
** Improve Matlab compatibility
** Some extensions make it painful to implement Matlab compatible command-style function calls? (some clarification needed)
+
** Some extensions make it painful to implement Matlab compatible command-style function calls? See also the [https://octave.discourse.group/t/parsing-command-style-function-call-syntax/1414/7 discussion] about this topic.
 
*** Remove rarely used extensions like "**" power.
 
*** Remove rarely used extensions like "**" power.
 
*** Discussion about removal of "+=", "++", etc.  No final decision made.
 
*** Discussion about removal of "+=", "++", etc.  No final decision made.
*** Often used extensions like "!" == "~" must probably stay.
+
*** Often used extensions must probably stay (like "!" or "!=" used in place of "~" or "~=").
  
 
=== C++ shared pointer / liboctave ===
 
=== C++ shared pointer / liboctave ===
 
* jwe had a look at Octave own reference counting
 
* jwe had a look at Octave own reference counting
 
* Wish to replace it with C++ shared pointers
 
* Wish to replace it with C++ shared pointers
* Expert knowledge wanted!
+
* Expert knowledge wanted! jwe opened a [https://octave.discourse.group/t/using-std-shared-ptr-t-to-implement-copy-on-write-objects-in-octave/1436 discussion thread]
** jwe will reach out on Discourse about the exact problems.
+
* jwe identified "copy expensive" inefficiency about mxArray to octave_value conversion? Root of the trouble lies in historical handling of complex data? See this [https://octave.discourse.group/t/improving-performance-of-data-transfer-to-and-from-mex-functions/1437 discussion].
* jwe identified "copy expensive" inefficiency about mxArray to octave_value conversion? (some clarification needed)
 
** Root of the trouble lies in historical handling of complex data?? (some clarification needed)
 
  
 
== See also ==
 
== See also ==

Latest revision as of 23:12, 24 August 2021

Todays topics[edit]

  • Meet and greet 5 minutes before meeting (audio testing).

Switch this meeting to more casual format[edit]

  • In the future notes of the talks will be added to this wiki in a more sparse fashion.

liboctave[edit]

  • Make more use of STL
  • Not all liboctave components can be replaced by STL containers, as the ND-indexing is not supported.
  • string_vector class probably replaceable by STL containers.

Tips for Octave C++ code writers[edit]

Such as packages, toolboxes, etc.

  • Prefer OCTAVE_LOCAL_BUFFER over heavy-weight Array object to store results of (Fortran-) library calls.
  • Prefer octave_value type variables over internal data structures.
    • Examples: Function handle class and Range class.

For package maintainers[edit]

octave namespace[edit]

  • jwe made many breaking changes on the default branch moving symbols in the octave namespace, to keep the namespaces tidy.

Deprecations[edit]

Trolling[edit]

  • In case of trolling behavior of users, please mark the thread, thus a Discourse admin can close the threat and mute the user.
    • DO NOT FEED THE TROLL: Any further answer or conversation is most likely a waste of emotions and time.
  • Any user violating the usage conditions https://octave.discourse.group/tos#heading--conditions will be muted or removed from the forum entirely.

Code sprints[edit]

Previous topics[edit]

The following items were not discussed. Just some links to progress on those items are displayed.

Octave 6.3 released[edit]

Octave 6.4 / 7 / 8[edit]

  • Discussion how to continue with the development.
    • jwe wants to introduce breaking changes (see below).
  • Octave should stick with the ~yearly major release cycle
    • Probably no Octave 6.4 (only if severe bugs occur).
    • Octave 7 (default branch)
      • Should no longer receive "very" breaking changes (e.g. String-class for Octave 8)
      • Has about 305 bugs fixed (not 100% reliable figure) and should not wait another year until many bigger outstanding changes happen (will be deferred to Octave 8)
      • Tentative plan:
        • November 2021 merge default to stable.
        • End of 2021 release of Octave 7
    • Octave 8 (new default branch)
      • No clear decision how to handle very breaking changes until November 2021 merge default to stable. Depends on future needs.

Octave 7 / 8[edit]

  • Function argument parsing (introduced in Matlab R2019b, rather new)
    • jwe will continue to work on this feature on Octave 7 (default branch)
    • If feature cannot be completed by the end of the year, it will be disabled on parser-level (error), and introduced in Octave 8 one year later.
  • New GUI command widget
    • Possible to introduce it as user opt-in in Octave 7
    • Pending issues:
      • Command-widget does not look like the previous one (textbox for command input)
      • jwe needs better looking widget (avoid developing a new one)
      • No possibility to run external applications (like emacs, pager), which is already partially broken now. Need to implement own paging strategy (scroll bars, etc.)
  • Deprecation of Octave operators
    • Improve Matlab compatibility
    • Some extensions make it painful to implement Matlab compatible command-style function calls? See also the discussion about this topic.
      • Remove rarely used extensions like "**" power.
      • Discussion about removal of "+=", "++", etc. No final decision made.
      • Often used extensions must probably stay (like "!" or "!=" used in place of "~" or "~=").

C++ shared pointer / liboctave[edit]

  • jwe had a look at Octave own reference counting
  • Wish to replace it with C++ shared pointers
  • Expert knowledge wanted! jwe opened a discussion thread
  • jwe identified "copy expensive" inefficiency about mxArray to octave_value conversion? Root of the trouble lies in historical handling of complex data? See this discussion.

See also[edit]